36 tk3

[Cummins12V98]

The 17 450 is only 9,500# ? That does not seem correct. Nor does the 14,500# GVWR rating on the 450, that puts it into the commercial territory. I thought all newer 350,450 and 3500's were ALL rated at 14K to keep them in the class 3 for licensing and insurance purposes?

My 15 3500 RAM has 6k front, 9,750# rear and 14k GVWR.

[wingnut60]

The 14500 was for the '09 and '10 models--it is now 14000 like all the rest.
I think the '17 is 9700, haven't checked, on the rear axle.
These trucks are generally heavier than a comparable 350/3500 and thus have a lighter payload to stay at the 14000 gross number.

[Cummins12V98]

Thanks! It kinda sorta backs what I have said for a long time these trucks are MUCH more capable of 14K. The 14K is a NUMBER for licensing and insurance purposes that come into effect when the GVWR is 14,001# or more!

It's not possible to utilize yours or my RAWR and NOT exceed 14K.

It's a numbers game and I was kicked off another forum for stating the above.

[clev]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I'll weigh in. I have a 2012 F350 KR, LB, SRW, 3.55's, with GVWR of 11.5k. The rear tires were 275/65/20's with max load of 3750 each. Towing capacity is listed at 15.7k and GCWR is 23.5k; my trailer is a 2017 36RSSB3 and was delivered at 16.3k pounds; overloaded from the beginning. Before I get flamed on numbers, I know that the GV and GC numbers are written in stone and cannot be changed, but due to Fords 2017 ratings, I disagree with that. I got rid of the sofa and theater seating and that dropped the tlr weight about 400 pounds; the replacements are barely over 100. I replaced all tires with 295's rated at 4080 pounds each and increased my load capacity by 330 pounds per tire; 1320 pounds total. I have added air bags at all 4 corners with onboard wireless compressor, the best Bilstien shocks and steering stabilizer, 1 3/4 inch rear anti-sway bar, trannie and diff covers for added fluid capacity and cooling, all fluids are synthetic, and programming to increase hp and torque. My truck is set up for towing better than the '17, but my truck is 'overloaded' by Ford's towing standards. Earlier in this year, I came across I-10 west through LA and had a north to south crosswind of ~35 mph, had no trouble, and wouldn't have known that I had the crosswind except for the news reports and trees and grass blowing on the road side. In July, I was in the mountains of Wyoming and SD; again, no trouble climbing or descending mountains. Braking? The trailer has disk brakes and stops before the truck brakes engage. I am perfectly safe and the numbers.......are just numbers.

[wingnut60]

clev,
No argument with your position--but, what is the actual weight on your rear tires?
Joe

[clev]

Cat scales have me at 7300 pounds on the rear tires, pin at 3800, and tires are rated for 8160. Total weight of the truck, hooked up, is ~12.4k; 900 over gvwr.

[wingnut60]

That is good for a SRW. Happy and safe travels!

[clev]

Thanks, wing.

[Cummins12V98]

Originally Posted by clev

At the risk of being ridiculed, I'll weigh in. I have a 2012 F350 KR, LB, SRW, 3.55's, with GVWR of 11.5k. The rear tires were 275/65/20's with max load of 3750 each. Towing capacity is listed at 15.7k and GCWR is 23.5k; my trailer is a 2017 36RSSB3 and was delivered at 16.3k pounds; overloaded from the beginning. Before I get flamed on numbers, I know that the GV and GC numbers are written in stone and cannot be changed, but due to Fords 2017 ratings, I disagree with that. I got rid of the sofa and theater seating and that dropped the tlr weight about 400 pounds; the replacements are barely over 100. I replaced all tires with 295's rated at 4080 pounds each and increased my load capacity by 330 pounds per tire; 1320 pounds total. I have added air bags at all 4 corners with onboard wireless compressor, the best Bilstien shocks and steering stabilizer, 1 3/4 inch rear anti-sway bar, trannie and diff covers for added fluid capacity and cooling, all fluids are synthetic, and programming to increase hp and torque. My truck is set up for towing better than the '17, but my truck is 'overloaded' by Ford's towing standards. Earlier in this year, I came across I-10 west through LA and had a north to south crosswind of ~35 mph, had no trouble, and wouldn't have known that I had the crosswind except for the news reports and trees and grass blowing on the road side. In July, I was in the mountains of Wyoming and SD; again, no trouble climbing or descending mountains. Braking? The trailer has disk brakes and stops before the truck brakes engage. I am perfectly safe and the numbers.......are just numbers.

I am sure with all the upgrades you have done it does handle the load well. BUT the money you spent is far more than buying a Dually, I assume you already know that.

Getting rid of the sofa etc was NOT needed IMHO. That may have actually added pin weight, that is far more of a concern.

[clev]

My truck was ~$75k in August, ‘12. I priced the SRW ‘17 equivilant to mine, that has a tow rating of 20.6k at ~$80k. Even though my truck stays garaged and is still basically new with only 45k miles, trade in would have been only in the 40’s ~ 50’s. So my truck and about $30k to trade. When I compared the specs on the ‘17, the engine, trannie, differential, suspension, and brakes were identical to my ‘12, except torque and hp. And with my engine mods, I’ve matched that, as well. I finally realized that it’s just a numbers game, and I wasn’t getting rid of my ‘new’ truck to play that game.

I really didn’t like the theater seating, and needed my lift chair. The gas cans and generator on the back rack off sets the weight of the pin.

[anijet]

Originally Posted by clev

My truck was ~$75k in August, ‘12. I priced the SRW ‘17 equivilant to mine, that has a tow rating of 20.6k at ~$80k............ .

Can you tell us what make, model, wheel base/bed length and any other pertinent information on the SRW truck with a 20.6 trow rating? If I could find a SRW that wouldn't overload the rear tires and axle at a pin weight around 4400#, I might look into it.

[clev]

Hi Leo. According to the 2017 Ford Brochure, all ratings are in compliance with SAE J2807:

Ford F350 6.7 diesel, SRW, 4x4, LB, and 3.55's:

GCWR-28,700 pounds and 5th Wheel/Goose Neck tow rating is 20,600 pounds, 5000 pounds more than my '12.

As previously stated, comparing to the '12, the brakes are the same size, shocks and springs are the same, differentials are the same, and except for torque and hp, engine and trannie are the same. I know they dropped some steel and used aluminum, but they can't drop that much steel to increase the ratings that much between the 2 vehicles. Do a google for '2017 Ford SuperDuty' brochure and you can verify the numbers.

[clev]

I swapped my 275 tires to 295's and that increased the rear tire max load to 8160 pounds, up from 7500 pounds. The rear of my truck is 7300 pounds with a 3800 pound pin weight.

[Cummins12V98]

How about the BIG difference in Exhaust Brake performance?

75K in 2012? Sounds like Canadian dollars?

Bottom line if it works for you thats great but the money spent will never be returned, that's just how it is when adding aftermarket items.

Anyone towing a MobileSuites should start out with a Dually plain and simple.

Towing and HANDLING a RV are two different things. Got to think about the unexpected. Of course all JMHO.

[clev]

Cummins, I’ve read your other posts on this site and soitc, and respect your advice and opinions. But, I resent the fact that you are implying that I am lieing about the price if my truck. The base price of the KR was~$52k, the diesel option was $8k, tires $1.4k, navigation $2k, moonroof $1k, and a long list of other options. I don’t know what you have, but you won’t touch a KR for much less than $70k, sticker price. Oh; don’t forget tax.

Exhaust brake? Those are fairly inexpensive to add, and would probably be nice to have, but after ~45 years of towing RV’s, I’ve never had use for it. With the disc brakes on the MS, and Hill Descent on the truck, I have plenty of slowing and stopping power.

If I were in the market for a new truck, yes, I would probably go for a dually. But with what I have, I don’t need nor want one. And the SRW 2017 F350 is “legally” rated to tow any Mobile Suites up to 20k pounds.

[Cummins12V98]

"75K in 2012? Sounds like Canadian dollars?" This is implying you are lying? Did NOT in any way suggest you have lied about anything!

NO you can't carry 4500# pin on a new 350srw, I did have that much pin on my 11 RAM Dually with our 07.5 36' DRV. 25% is a realistic pin weight for any two axle DRV. If you are referring to towing that all depends on the configuration of the truck and a light pin as when towing a gooseneck trailer with a standard 15% pin. Ratings are VERY deceiving.

If you looked at my public signature it says what i have to help everyone know for ease of discussions.


I understand why you did what you did but please don't give people the impression it's within specs to tow a 20K DRV with a 350srw.

I say you would have been money ahead since used diesel trucks hold their value well to have sole your truck and bought a DRW as you say you probable will if buying a new truck.

Merry Christmas!

[clev]

Cummins, please don't make this personal. I'm not giving anyone impressions about anything; you are giving the impressions by stating 'you can and cannot' do something based on your ideas. I have done nothing but post facts based on Ford's SAE tow rating and also told everyone where to verify those numbers; they are not my numbers and I made no recommendations or advisements. But it is your prerogative to disagree with Ford if you want. And here are some more numbers, 'standard pin weight on most fifth wheels is 15-18% of GVWR, but can be as high as 24%'. That can be verified on page 34 of the 2018 Trailer Life Guide to Towing, and nothing was written about a 'light pin'. So, based on that, a 20k fifth wheel could feasibly have a pin of 3000 to 4800 pounds. But I'm thinking that most that are towing with SRW will really be selective on how they load the front.

Finally, I would never buy a used vehicle, especially a truck. It's never known how the vehicle was cared for or used; I'm not a trusting person

[Cummins12V98]

Not personal but you need to be more informed about two axle DRV pin weights. Most DRV owners are fulltimers. Talk to the guy that used to weigh these rigs at rallies it will surprise you as it did MANY of the owners being weighed.

Bottom line it's what you can carry on your rear tires as in rear axle rating. Front axle gets at the most 200# added so that is never an issue. Tires are not always what dictate the axle ratings as mine is 9,750# but tire capacity is over 11K.

Oh I'm done bout ready to enjoy a nice meal.

[clev]

I’m done as well; I’m fixing oven fried chicken for dinner and it’s almost ready. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.

[Notanlines]

At risk of poking a mad dog through the fence with a stick, Clev might I ask you to either take a picture of the yellow sticker on the door post of your F350 and post it for us, or just read the cargo capacity for us from that sticker and post it here. No other figures, just the cargo capacity. What we are discussing here is a very important part of RV ownership, one that is ignored by more RVers than you can imagine.
Cleve, since your truck is the one that has been discussed, let's use yours for an example. It is a vehicle that is the heaviest of the heavy F350 SRW. King Ranch model loaded with every option known to modern man. And then to top it off you extended Ford's options with a list of your own. You then loaded the truck with a 5th wheel hitch, probably in the 200-250 pound range. More if it is an autoslider. Let's add 26 gallons of fuel, 37 gallons if you have a longbed. Let's add three adults at say 175 pounds apiece. Maybe you only have you and Momma....I'm just going by an average. Would you say that maybe you've added 100 pounds of options? Maybe carry some tools? Clev, we've added right at 1000 pounds to your F350 and the RV hasn't been hooked up yet. By your statement Ford has a good idea of what the truck can haul and tow. You can't go further than the 11,500 less 1000 pounds. Your truck probably weighs in the 8500 pound range. That leaves you 2000 pounds for the pin weight of your RV.
What I have given you are real numbers, not something I pulled out of the air. I'm not "picking on you," I'm just making a point for other readers who might have the same idea that Suites can be hauled within manufacturers spec's with a 3500/350. Sorry, but you can't get there from here. You have to go home and start over.
And congrat's to all who have kept this conversation civil and interesting.

Merry Christmas to everyone out there.