Tow vehicle help

learning · 08-02-2007, 03:58 PM

Hi Iam Learning,

We got a good deal on a Ford 250 Lariat supercab. So we bought it.
Then we traded our motorhome for a 36ft Doubletree fifth wheel. As we drove our truck it felt like the fifthwheel was bucking us. Then when we turned left our brakes locked up and we couldn't move forward or backward so the next day my husband unplugged things and we drove around the corner home with no brakes. As I have been reading the forum questions I see no has a small truck. Must we trade in for a 350? Or is there a way to jazz up our 250.
I hope someone will help us or tell us who to call. We are stuck.
Thank you in advance.

Learning
P>S> I apologize. I don't understand all the BBcode,
HTML Polls, etc. Hope i do this right

anijet · 08-02-2007, 07:48 PM

Hi learning,

The bucking you mentioned, is it traveling along a road with expansion joints? This is typically called chucking and can be helped with a varity of hitches and/or pin boxes. I finally eliminated most of the chucking with an AirSafe air ride hitch and a Demco Glide Ride pin box.

As far as the brakes, it sounds like the emergency disconnect pin was pulled which will apply full brake force from the trailer battery until the battery drains or the switch/pin is reset.

The 250 will not be rated by Ford for that much weight. It will pull the trailer just fine but stopping and stability will be marginal. If the trailer has disc brakes, that will help. If it has electric brakes, I would upgrade the truck. Also, make sure you are not exceeding the weight limits of the tires. The chassis and axles will usually carry more than they are rated for, but not the tires.

**wingnut60** · 08-02-2007, 09:41 PM

Learning,

Where in Texas are you?

you should have a 350 dual rear wheel minimum for that trailer, maybe even a 450.

You need to fix the brake situation before you tow again, even with the 250--sounds like you pulled the emergency brake pin out of the socket. It should be replaced back into the black box on the side of the trailer frame pin box. Then be sure it has enough length not to be pulled out when turning.

There are lots of folks on this forum who will try to help you with the "Learning"

learning · 08-03-2007, 06:44 PM

Thanks. We are in Whitney, Texas just 40 miles north of Waco. The bottom line is we should have done our homework???? before letting the repair shop talk us into trading our Holiday Rambler for this MS.. Even though it is beautiful and has everything we need we are stuck now to buy up or trade our MS for something smaller or lighter. Iam a little frustered right now. Have done lots of searching and looks like we need a miracle. Being a woman and wanting to get help, I apologize that I do not understand much about all this. Please forgive me for taking up your time.

rotaxman · 08-03-2007, 11:03 PM

Learning

First off don't apologize for anything everyone on this forum at one time or another as gone thru a learning curve.

I myself did much like you I ordered my trailer and then bought an F 350 one ton dually four door and proceeded to invest about 7000.00 dollars in aftermarket products only to find out when I went to pick up the trailer that I didn't have a big enough truck.

There are a lot of people pullings MS's with one tons but for me it was not a pleasant towing experience I didn't know for sure who was running ths show the truck or the trailer.

If you have a 36ft Mobile Suite you need at least an F 450 or bigger. I will no doubt get flamed for this statement but it's not a matter of opinion it's a matter of numbers all you have to do is go to the manufactures website and look at the trailer towing chart and you will see that the rear axle load cap will be exceeded and in some cases the front also.

I haven't found a trailer with the exception of the Teton that is heavier than a Mobile Suite.

I feel your pain if I had it to do all over again I would be pulling somehting else but as it is now I have to keep it a few more years before I will be able to trade without loosing my skin.

I know all of this is of no help to your situation but I know the spot your in been there and didn't like it.

Hope that you get out of your prediciment and can get on with the travels

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

RonS · 08-04-2007, 12:39 PM

Everyone thinks that the truck they have and are using for towing is the best, thats why they have it. Having said that I would like to see a poll of Molile Suites owners and what they are using as TV. The most I have seen are one ton diesel duallys, second place I would give to 3/4 ton diesels who have added air assist bags, then comes a few of the the big boys. I did tow my 36TK3 with a 3/4 ton diesel just to see how it felt, it pulled fine and breaking was not an issue. (Now comes in the weight police). The same day of my test tow with the 3/4 ton I came upon a one ton diesel dually which I purchased. I was shopping for a newer truck anyway, and this dually tows great and fits in my garage. When I was at the DoubleTree factory for warranty work, I noticed most of the people who are delivering 5th wheels from the factory to the dealers are using duallys. I have never driven any of the bigger trucks, and my guess that they handle the MS great, but I dont want one.

sigo'suite · 08-04-2007, 08:55 PM

I agree with RonS on this subject of big boys and their toys.

As signature below says, towing with an F-350 dually totally stock. I did change out the Ford integral brake controller for a much better brake controller and just recently changed hitch out for one which I really like, that has noticably softened the chucking motion.

There are some towing with the 3/4 ton, I know one who tows all over the country with one and it is a 7.3L, of course he has souped it up a bit. He also helped the springs with the Timbren load supports.

Now have at it fella's!!!!!!!!!

WildJohn · 08-05-2007, 12:04 AM

I had a long detailed answer almost ready to post yesterday and punched the wrong button or something and lost it.. once again the Good Lord was taking care of me and I didn't send it. For all the information you can use and probably more you can check out the Escapees forums.

http://escapees.infopop.cc/eve/forum...rm/f/307606751
Should get you to the forum pages.

If you study these forums history pages you can make your own informed decision by weeding through the opinions. Concentrate on the posts from people who have spent the money to go from too little truck to 'nuf truck and then to plenty of truck.
Study the manufacturers weight tables and you will see that despite some people's opinions a 3/4 ton truck is not designed to pull these rigs.. as has been said before.. you can pull it with a VW if you modify it enough and have enough time to get where you are going.
If you want the ultimate in towing comfort for a long haul and never have to be concerned about safety or the ability of your tow vehicle that is not the right way to go.

Good luck and if there is anything I can do to help you just let me know.
Happy Camping... all the time
John

rotaxman · 08-05-2007, 12:37 AM

Learning

I knew I shouldn't have posted on this subject I hereby resign my commision as weight police and will not get involved in this topic any more.

I will start my quest of finding a good 3/4 ton to pull this light weight trailer.

I apologize for forgetting what the original question was. I didn't mean to start this useless argument about who's is the best.

Learning check your pm's

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

No just Jerry

Motor31 · 08-05-2007, 09:49 AM

Learning,

You have 3 choices in trucks. Light duty, 1 ton and below, Medium duty, 450 through 650 and the HDT's which are the converted heavy haulers, class 7 and 8.

As far as which one you want, it's up to you. At this time there is little enforcement of weight standards for RV's outside of a major collision. As such you can get by with a light duty truck for a heavy RV, as long as nothing bad happens. There are quite a few folks who are doing just that and some are very vocal about it to the point of name calling and sarcasm rather than compliance with the factory towing specs in their vehicles.

You've been given a good source to start doing some research. You might also want to look at the laws in the state that you will have as your home or domicile state as that will give you the legal guidance regarding licensing for both the truck and you. The SKP site can help point you in the direction to look there as well for all 3 choices. Ask questions there and you'll get serious non sarcastic answers since folks know we all started out as a beginner.

Doing research now before you get the trailer and truck may possibly save you some serious money if you get a minimal truck and find it wasn't up to the task you had in mind.

**wingnut60** · 08-05-2007, 10:25 AM

Motor 31--

An excellent reply.

bstark · 08-05-2007, 10:36 AM

Here comes another .02 cents worth of opinion.

As RV'ers, we are all members of a large fraternity and are continuously subjected to stuff that will 'test' us. It's easy to assume a superior position and chastise each other. We must remember that we are all in this together and should 'assist' where possible and leave the lecturing to folks like the law enforcement officers who's job it is and are paid to do it.

When you post a request for info, it is, in my opinion the same as a request for help and as RV'ers we should be willing to provide that without strings attached by way of caustic or belittling comments.

You have received some very good info and also a link to the Escapee's forum where, as Mike says, folks have discussed and continue to discuss this topic without rancor or invective.

sigo'suite · 08-05-2007, 10:58 PM

Told ya so !!!!!

hitchup · 08-06-2007, 09:53 AM

Hey Learning:

I'm the researcher & the female in our duo. I was sort of hoping that these men would help you out. But I was waiting for more information from you. What year is your MS, what weight GVWR is on the tag, what year is the F250, what weight GCWR on it & most importantly what is the 5er towing capacity?

Reasons are: the bucking could be one thing & locking up of the brakes could be because you have a MS that has disc brakes & the F250 brake controller isn't compatible. Or like us, something in the bed of our truck pulled out the pin lock & we were stuck in a turn. To help with your research, Trailer Life's annual towing guide from 1999-2007(2008 Ford)
http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175

Been there, done that. We went from a 16,000 lb OR 5er pulled by a 1-ton to the 18,500 lb ES 5er & F450. But not all at the same time. We kept the ES as light as possible until we could find the truck we could afford & would do the job. Took us well over a year.

Vickie

Texas 250 · 08-07-2007, 01:04 AM

250 or 350 Ford trucks have the same GVWR, it depends on how heavy your truck is (diesel/gas , 4wd/2wd, 4dr/2dr, dual wheel/single wheel) then deduct the weight of your truck from gross towing capacity and that tells you what you can tow. My 2001 CC/4dr/4wd/SWB/PowerStroke weighs 7500lbs ,my truck is rated for 20000 total towing, which leaves about 12500lbs to tow. My M/S weighs 16500lbs empty at D.P.S. scale, so Iam 4000lbs over (before Iam loaded up) limit. My 250 has air bags which does help on leveling and also isspro gauges for monitoring the drivetrain. So with me being over weight about(4000 trailer plus stuff 2500) do I feel unsafe going down the road? YES. When I see somebody in a 350 towing a M/S I know ( depending on year model) a 250 is rated for the same total towing capacity. When I bought my 01 both 250/350 ,single or dual where rated the same towing capacity.

2001/250/4wd/CC/Swb/PS
2007/36RS3/Loaded

Texas 250 · 08-07-2007, 01:05 AM

250 or 350 Ford trucks have the same GVWR, it depends on how heavy your truck is (diesel/gas , 4wd/2wd, 4dr/2dr, dual wheel/single wheel) then deduct the weight of your truck from gross towing capacity and that tells you what you can tow. My 2001 CC/4dr/4wd/SWB/PowerStroke weighs 7500lbs ,my truck is rated for 20000 total towing, which leaves about 12500lbs to tow. My M/S weighs 16500lbs empty at D.P.S. scale, so Iam 4000lbs over (before Iam loaded up) limit. My 250 has air bags which does help on leveling and also isspro gauges for monitoring the drivetrain. So with me being over weight about(4000 trailer plus stuff 2500) do I feel unsafe going down the road? YES. When I see somebody in a 350 towing a M/S I know ( depending on year model) a 250 is rated for the same total towing capacity. When I bought my 01 both 250/350 ,single or dual where rated the same towing capacity.

2001/250/4wd/CC/Swb/PS
2007/36RS3/Loaded

RustyJC · 08-07-2007, 10:20 AM

If one wants to run the numbers instead of looking at overly optimistic "manufacturer's trailer towing ratings" that are calculated using a base vehicle with only a 150 lb driver, then one needs to know the truck's GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating - the maximum allowable total weight of the loaded truck and towed load) and GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - the maximum allowable weight that can be carried by the truck, including the truck itself). In addition, one should run the truck over the scales loaded just as it will be when it hits the road with options, accessories (including 5th wheel hitch), full fuel tank(s), cargo, driver, passengers, etc. - this will be the truck's LCW (laden curb weight).

Truck's GCWR - Truck's LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer

Truck's GVWR - Truck's LCW = maximum allowable pin/hitch weight of loaded trailer

A given SRW (single rear wheel) and DRW (dual rear wheel) truck may have the same GCWR - in this case, the lighter SRW truck may have a higher "manufacturer's trailer towing rating" which is calculated as GCWR - assumed curb weight. However, because of the 20%+ pin weight of the 5th wheel trailer that is carried by the truck, a SRW truck will almost always exceed its GVWR long before it reaches its GCWR or "manufacturer's trailer towing rating". This is the reason for the dually - its higher rear GAWR and GVWR ratings.

If one searches in the fine print where a manufacturer gives his trailer tow ratings, something similar to the following phrase will appear - "None of the truck's ratings are to be exceeded when towing." This is the "gotcha" that catches the SRW trucks on GVWR!

Rusty

sigo'suite · 08-08-2007, 09:34 AM

learning, check your pm's

Motor31 · 08-09-2007, 10:11 AM

The F250 and F350 do have the same weight ratings, up to a point. That's where the F350 continues to have a higher capacity.

Per the 2007 Trailer life towing guide, 5th wheel category.

F250 / F350 combined go to a max of 15,500 lbs with auto trans and 3.73:1 drive

F350 goes to 18,800 lbs with auto trans and 4.30:1 drive.

If both models had the same ratings all across the board there would be no reason to have both models in the line.

The F250 is not rated to haul the 38' MS rigs empty (16,500) or the 36' MS rigs loaded to max weight.

Adding air bags, chips, transmission mods or larger wheels / tires does not change the weight capacity of the tow vehicle. Only the factory is authorized to make a change in the capacity.

RustyJC · 08-09-2007, 10:37 AM

The pin weight of a MS will put the F250 over its GVWR, regardless of its "manufacturer's trailer tow rating" or its GCWR.

Rusty