Failed lippert hydraulic stabilizers and my solution

stanleyz · 10-02-2015, 11:24 PM

This is provided as a public service for any poor schlub who might be experiencing the same problems and searching for a solution. Sorry, but it will be a long post.

2005 36 TK3. This began as a dropping off door stabilizer back in March. i have spent around 900 dollars, 650 needlessly and 250 to solve the problem. here are a number of lessons I learned during the solving of this problem.

My first effort was to seek advice from Lippert. they have a good web site and great customer service and are very nice people. However, with one exception the service reps I spoke with had scant knowledge about this older system. Their advice was to take it to a Lippert recommended service center. So, I did. Camping world in Woodstock was one of their listed facilities in the Atlanta area. I chained up the stabilizers and took it there. They kept it a month, installed two new valves and charged me 650 bucks. When I picked it up it I didn't get off the lot before the stabilizer dropped.

I was committed to a long trip from june to the end of august. i went on the trip with the stabilizers chained and when we would stop in parks I would remove the chains and use the stabilizers. They worked fine in the down position.

By the time I got home I had all kinds of symptoms. Both stabs would drop when different slides went in or out and they did it with no decernable pattern. They sometimes would also drop when the landing gear went down or sometimes up. I had several conversations with Lippert and I studied various hydraulic sites on line.

I started looking at the three valves on the manifold. Found one that had a bad cap and chased that for a while. Those valves should all be in the closed position which is full counter clockwise. I found one that had no stop in the counter clockwise direction and would just screw off. That was a big waste of time. i don't think the other valves had anything to do with the landing gear and stabilizers. i did however learn that the way to test those valves is to remove the wires and then try to operate the slide that the valve matches up to. now, if the slide works with the wires disconnected the valve is faulty. Yep, that's what lippert says and it checked out. my valves were all OK.

One of the things that really confused me is that the problem was for a long time intermittant. sometimes both stabilizers would work just fine. Even when i was on the trip i had days when they stayed up. I would put safety chains on them just in case but many times the chains weren't needed. That takes me to a lesson I learned. On the Lippert web site there is a procedure posted to check the hydraulic rams. it says to put the stabs or landing gear in the up position, remove the top hose and have someone push "retract". If fluid comes out of the top stabilizer hole the ram seal has failed and the ram must be replaced or rebuilt. I ran that test three times and the stabilizer passed every time, no fluid out the top hole.

About a month ago Joe who I met out in Santa fe in July and who hangs on this site as "wingnut" suggested I call paul Cross in Indiana. I sent Paul an email and he forwarded it to a fellow named Ron at Lippert. Ron was kind enough to call and get me on the right track. He is an older fellow and knew this system well. he told me it was surely the top seal that was failed. When i told him I had tried the test three times he explained that testing it when the stabilizer was holding in the up position would give a false reading. It should be tested when the stab is not holding up. Use a jack or whetever to get it up and then remove the top hose and push retract. When I thought about it that made sense.

So, I tested it that way and it failed. I removed the stab and took it to the local hydraulic shop. When I got it back and re-installed it everything was worse. now the off door would not go up and the door side was dropping under pressure. It was making me crazy.

But here's the deal. The hydraulic fluid follows the path of least resistance. The top seal in the door side stab was now failing. It was easier for the fluid to go through that seal than it was to push up the rebuilt stabilizer on the other side. When the fluid went through the top seal it would push the stab down. Using the slideouts or the landing gear would have the same impact. All the elements of the system are connected and it was easier for the fluid to go through the failed top seal than to move anything else so it would do that first and then move whatever it was supposed to move. I removed the other stabilizer and took it to the shop. It was rebuilt, today I picked it up and installed. So far everything is now working as designed. I am a happy camper.

The mechanical part of removing and installing the stabilizers is pretty simple. Take off both hosees and remove the two connectors. Remove the bottom bolt and extend the stabilizer until you can unbolt the foot. Then let the square tube drop out. finally, remove the bolt at the top and let the ram drop out. The whole thing takes ten or fifteen minutes. The hard part is finding a place to do it. you need about 18 inches below the bottom of the stabilizer. I had a wall on my RV pad where I could let the off door hang over. For the second one there is a manhole right in front of my house. I'm sure the county won't mind and most of my neghibors were at work.

So, if I had it to do over I would first test the top seal correctly and if it was failed I would just go ahead and have both stabilizers rebuilt.

hope this save someone some aggravation.

golf_bears · 10-03-2015, 09:08 AM

Nice write-up Stan. Thanks for taking the time to help all of us should we run into the same problem. Also, happy you're back on the road with no hydraulic issues. Persistence pays off, right???

terry and jo · 10-03-2015, 09:56 AM

I'll chime in with a "thanks" as well. Both here and at SOITC, we hear about the problems with the cylinders. Since we don't move much at all, I guess that not using the cylinders much might mean I haven't done enough moving to have the problem.

Just as an after thought for the future, I've heard from a number of sources to never go to Camping World for service, if it is at all possible.

Hope your problems are fully solved.

Terry

**wingnut60** · 10-03-2015, 11:00 AM

Stanley,
Happy that you have resolved the issue. I now know what to do if/when it occurs with my old Suites.
And another 'Beware of Camping World' experience...how do they stay in business?
Joe

stanleyz · 10-03-2015, 12:18 PM

Yeah, I was very disappointed with CW. I was also supprised to learn after the fact that the CW service departments are almost universially avoided by RVers. They really should not have taken the job. it was apparent that all they were doing was calling Lippert and following their lead. In fact, when we had a long discussion about their performance they tried putting the blame on Lippert. I did not let that happen.

However, on the positive side I think I have two good valves so if anybody needs one let me know.

billr · 10-03-2015, 01:02 PM

Good info. Thanks.

Chandler · 10-03-2015, 09:56 PM

Good info stanleyz. Glad you got it fixed. I hope I don't need it but will save it just in case. Happy camping!

Kevin All-Thumbs · 07-27-2018, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanleyz

This is provided as a public service for any poor schlub who might be experiencing the same problems and searching for a solution. Sorry, but it will be a long post.

2005 36 TK3. This began as a dropping off door stabilizer back in March. i have spent around 900 dollars, 650 needlessly and 250 to solve the problem. here are a number of lessons I learned during the solving of this problem.

My first effort was to seek advice from Lippert. they have a good web site and great customer service and are very nice people. However, with one exception the service reps I spoke with had scant knowledge about this older system. Their advice was to take it to a Lippert recommended service center. So, I did. Camping world in Woodstock was one of their listed facilities in the Atlanta area. I chained up the stabilizers and took it there. They kept it a month, installed two new valves and charged me 650 bucks. When I picked it up it I didn't get off the lot before the stabilizer dropped.

I was committed to a long trip from june to the end of august. i went on the trip with the stabilizers chained and when we would stop in parks I would remove the chains and use the stabilizers. They worked fine in the down position.

By the time I got home I had all kinds of symptoms. Both stabs would drop when different slides went in or out and they did it with no decernable pattern. They sometimes would also drop when the landing gear went down or sometimes up. I had several conversations with Lippert and I studied various hydraulic sites on line.

I started looking at the three valves on the manifold. Found one that had a bad cap and chased that for a while. Those valves should all be in the closed position which is full counter clockwise. I found one that had no stop in the counter clockwise direction and would just screw off. That was a big waste of time. i don't think the other valves had anything to do with the landing gear and stabilizers. i did however learn that the way to test those valves is to remove the wires and then try to operate the slide that the valve matches up to. now, if the slide works with the wires disconnected the valve is faulty. Yep, that's what lippert says and it checked out. my valves were all OK.

One of the things that really confused me is that the problem was for a long time intermittant. sometimes both stabilizers would work just fine. Even when i was on the trip i had days when they stayed up. I would put safety chains on them just in case but many times the chains weren't needed. That takes me to a lesson I learned. On the Lippert web site there is a procedure posted to check the hydraulic rams. it says to put the stabs or landing gear in the up position, remove the top hose and have someone push "retract". If fluid comes out of the top stabilizer hole the ram seal has failed and the ram must be replaced or rebuilt. I ran that test three times and the stabilizer passed every time, no fluid out the top hole.

About a month ago Joe who I met out in Santa fe in July and who hangs on this site as "wingnut" suggested I call paul Cross in Indiana. I sent Paul an email and he forwarded it to a fellow named Ron at Lippert. Ron was kind enough to call and get me on the right track. He is an older fellow and knew this system well. he told me it was surely the top seal that was failed. When i told him I had tried the test three times he explained that testing it when the stabilizer was holding in the up position would give a false reading. It should be tested when the stab is not holding up. Use a jack or whetever to get it up and then remove the top hose and push retract. When I thought about it that made sense.

So, I tested it that way and it failed. I removed the stab and took it to the local hydraulic shop. When I got it back and re-installed it everything was worse. now the off door would not go up and the door side was dropping under pressure. It was making me crazy.

But here's the deal. The hydraulic fluid follows the path of least resistance. The top seal in the door side stab was now failing. It was easier for the fluid to go through that seal than it was to push up the rebuilt stabilizer on the other side. When the fluid went through the top seal it would push the stab down. Using the slideouts or the landing gear would have the same impact. All the elements of the system are connected and it was easier for the fluid to go through the failed top seal than to move anything else so it would do that first and then move whatever it was supposed to move. I removed the other stabilizer and took it to the shop. It was rebuilt, today I picked it up and installed. So far everything is now working as designed. I am a happy camper.

The mechanical part of removing and installing the stabilizers is pretty simple. Take off both hosees and remove the two connectors. Remove the bottom bolt and extend the stabilizer until you can unbolt the foot. Then let the square tube drop out. finally, remove the bolt at the top and let the ram drop out. The whole thing takes ten or fifteen minutes. The hard part is finding a place to do it. you need about 18 inches below the bottom of the stabilizer. I had a wall on my RV pad where I could let the off door hang over. For the second one there is a manhole right in front of my house. I'm sure the county won't mind and most of my neghibors were at work.

So, if I had it to do over I would first test the top seal correctly and if it was failed I would just go ahead and have both stabilizers rebuilt.

hope this save someone some aggravation.

STAN:
I cannot thank you enough for posting this message 3 yrs ago. Thinking that we may now have the same identical problem...we have a 2005 DRV Mobile Suites and my drivers side landing gear just started slipping down whilst on our 3 month cross country trip. We're still in midst of diagnosing/fixing the problem but your solution would seem spot on. My question, if you're still out there, is have you had any problems with the stabs since?? Otherwise presumably the problem solved still 3 yrs later???

**wingnut60** · 07-28-2018, 07:37 PM

This won't help you, but I traded my '05 in on a '15--now have the dropping front legs intermittently, and almost never while towing, only when stopped overnight/hitched and slides extended. Get up in morning and one or both legs may be sitting at ground level. Never any tension on them, just drop.
Have appt with Lippert in early Sept to have them replaced.

stanleyz · 07-28-2018, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin All-Thumbs

STAN:
I cannot thank you enough for posting this message 3 yrs ago. Thinking that we may now have the same identical problem...we have a 2005 DRV Mobile Suites and my drivers side landing gear just started slipping down whilst on our 3 month cross country trip. We're still in midst of diagnosing/fixing the problem but your solution would seem spot on. My question, if you're still out there, is have you had any problems with the stabs since?? Otherwise presumably the problem solved still 3 yrs later???

Working perfect. I keep expecting the landing gear to fail but so far no problem with them or any other hydraulics. Do them both. One will just make the other one fail.

Kevin All-Thumbs · 08-08-2018, 02:48 PM

Thanks Stan! Will do!

Kevin All-Thumbs · 08-12-2018, 02:42 PM

Stan:
I'm still on the road and stab problems worsening... hopefully I can limp home for a final fix, but meantime, I think I've got it narrowed to the solenoid check valve, a ram seal (or both?). Thinking replacing the solenoid is an easy check; however Lippert now tells me they've been discontinued and unavailable. Do you still have your old ones?

stanleyz · 08-12-2018, 04:56 PM

Thumbs. Hi. Since our trailers are pretty much identical i would suggest if your symptoms are the same then our problems are the same. Changing that check valve is what camping world did to mine. They said they did it because Lippert told them that was the problem. Trouble with lippert is they dont have anyone who remembers these jacks. Were i u i would remove those rear units and have them rebuilt. Yntil then just keep them chained up when travelling. I did that for amonth or so on the road. I am also on the road and yes I have a valve that cw replaced. I assume it good since replacing it did nothing. I will be home by labor day. And FWIW i put off rebuilding the front rams and I am now on the road with them failing. Each time i hook up i have to raise the frame with a pair of bottle jacks. Once the weight is off the jacks will move and then the seals get wet i guess and they will lift the trailer. I tell you this so u know that all four probably need rebuilt. Hope this helps. Also there is a test for those ram seals. It may be in that old thread or maybe you can google it. I think it goes raise the jacks, open the top conection where the fluid goes in and then press the up button. If fluid comes out the top hole the seals are bad. However if i remember it right mine passed a couple times because the seals would turn and hold SOMETIMES. Check my old string and see if thats what i said back then. Good luck and if u still feel the valve will help let me know and we can work something out when i get home.

Kevin All-Thumbs · 08-12-2018, 07:57 PM

Thanks Stan! To be clear, my rig does not have rear stabilizer jacks, only on the front... so I guess that means I only have 1/2 the problem?? But still a headache. I'm on the road till after Labor Day myself, so planning to limp home best as possible. So far, I can extend the front jacks to unhitch the truck, but when opening the 1st slide the front stabs drop down to the lowest level immediately. Fortunately, I can still raise the jacks back up to level and they'll hold (so far), but in doing so hear a gurgling sound from the pump compartment.... yet I see no frothing in the reservoir tank and fluid level has not dropped appreciably (nor have I seen any fluid on the ground, which is why I suspect the check valve). Meantime, I've purchased a couple bottle jacks for the trip home as a backup. I may need to get your old check valves but will run a test on the ram seals after Labor Day. Will let you know either way. Once again, I can't thank you enough for your original posting and follow-up.

stanleyz · 08-13-2018, 08:59 AM

Hi Thumbs. I guess I'm confused I thought you were having trouble with the stabilizers. What happens if you open the slides first then do the landing gear? I do have a new valve or one that should be OK, I'll be home Labor day let me know if you need it. All I recall about the valves is that they should all be turned fully counter clockwise. If the landing gear lift and lower the trailer I would think the seals are OK. My guess and thats all it is would be that the manifold is malfunctioning. I think the test for a valve is to identify what it controls, close (clock wise) the valve and push the button. If it works when you push the button with the valve closed the valve is malfunctioning. Also, as I recall those valves are available from another source but I don't remember the web site. Google was my friend. Finally there is a guy in Indiana who is expert in these things, you might try talking with him. I think it;s Paul Cross RV if that's not right check on some of the threads on here for the right name. There is also a red block on the top of the driver side landing gear. I have forgotten what it does or how to check it but Google is yur friend. Good luck and stay in touch, maybe we can help each other as mine are failed and won't lift the trailer until I can move them up and down a couple times. I am assuming it,s the rams and moving them with the weight off gets them wet enough to seal. I had that experience with the stabilizers when they would stay up for days.